Cataclysm general discussion

[Kharas]

On Silvermoon there are so few horde that pretty much all Capitols are alliance, only difference is that some of them have inbuild entertaintment in the form of hostile guards and other npcs

[MaDCeLL]

Lots of changes in the trees,
Interesting ones like "jinx" ...
.. and completely WTF-ones like the retri tree
feral tree seems to be really hard to design, not much happening there yet,
lets wait for the next release.

[Ataulfo]

Bah, I was expecting to see more advanced trees, these are just a storm of ideas.

I did like the spell changes, doomguard and infernal being 1 minute guardians (further extendable by talents) that will focus on targets that have bane of doom/agony, and bane of doom will tick twice/minute instead of once, having a 25% chance of popping a doomguard/tick.

Jinx is the kind of talents blizzard is trying to push in, not a dps increase, but still a desirable effect, in this case, an aoe CoE.

Ret tree is still a bag of mixed feelings. Obv the 30 min cd on the 31 pt is a placeholder, but the tree is just loaded with damage. Like a new, totally terrible, art of war (not talking about not having some instant heal but it being a rng chance to have exo available or not, specially after the cd has been lowered and damage propped up), or a synergy that promises to blow things up on contact when all cds are lined up (get inquisition up > load another 3 holy power > guardian + avenging wrath + zealotry > CS > TV > CS > TV > CS > TV > .... I wish anything good luck surviving the guardian pet + 30% propped up holy damage + 20% all damage mixed with 160% weapondamage hits + 290% weapondamage hits back to back for 20 seconds, gg right? now imagine this is a BG and we can factor in berserking) and zero changes to the main core problem, mobility. They already tried the blowing things up on contact in wotlk with crap mobility, it didn't work, their solution cant be to give even more blowing up power removing even more mobility.

Also, the tree is stupid, in a pve build, neither the interrupt or CC are taken, not even the runspeed talent, because there's always a dps option available. So to max out the dps a ret pala has to give up what they wanted every melee to have? (reliable interrupt and some form of cc)

*Waiting for next beta build*

[MaDCeLL]

hihi

I was very careful with my "concerns" on the Retribution Tree.
My first impulse was "ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED ?!"
Then I thought: Well you don't know enough about Retris, so better shut up an not say anything.
But after reading Atas post I am kinda smiling that my first perception of those talents was indeed correct

[Ataulfo]

Tbh the main problem is the posibility of doing back to back CS > TV. The rest of the stuff is not much more than what it's live atm (which kinda goes inline with what other classes are getting). I just cant imagine how it got through a "up to 290% weapon damage" attack with no cd if there's the posibility though a dps CD to wind it up to max power in 1 gcd.

They have created a retarded synergy (which is totally vulnerable to dispels btw, gg inquisition as dispellable buff, the least thing a ret needed, more dispellable dps) AND introduced a non-cd attack that can deal massive damage, while doing nothing to enhance mobility, after they've nerfed it, on the class that suffers the most problems sticking to targets unless others snare them AND freedom sticks for more than 3 seconds.

[Kuntohalija]

They have created a retarded synergy (which is totally vulnerable to dispels btw, gg inquisition as dispellable buff, the least thing a ret needed, more dispellable dps) AND introduced a non-cd attack that can deal massive damage, while doing nothing to enhance mobility, after they've nerfed it, on the class that suffers the most problems sticking to targets unless others snare them AND freedom sticks for more than 3 seconds.

I thought they were going to increase the mana cost of magical dispelling by a big amount? (not sure where the beta stands in this regard atm) Or I might also have missed a few patches

[MaDCeLL]

+ I believe you have to sacrifice some of your defensive dispelling capabilities in oder to gain the offensive ones ?

[Ataulfo]

I thought they were going to increase the mana cost of magical dispelling by a big amount? (not sure where the beta stands in this regard atm) Or I might also have missed a few patches

That wont prevent dispelling from happening, and when you can remove up to 40% damage output worth in buffs randomly dispelling, despite the high manacost, it's worth it.

+ I believe you have to sacrifice some of your defensive dispelling capabilities in oder to gain the offensive ones ?

You're terribly missinformed.

This is the dispelling list as it stands/is planned to.

Healer list:
(Holy) paladin: (defensive) magic, poison, disease
(Resto) shaman: (defensive) magic, (offensive) magic, curses
(Resto) druid: (defensive) magic, poison, curses
(Holy/Disc) priest: diseases + the weird apple of dispel magic, that god knows what will they do with it if they don't want shadowpriests to be able of dispelling defensive magic.

Dps list:
Warlock: (defensive/offensive) magic (pet: felhunter)
Mage: curses, (offensive) magic
Feral/Balance druid: curses, poison
Protection/Retribution: disease, poison
Elemental/Enhancement: (offensive) magic, curses
Shadow priests: disease, (offensive) magic, and whatever they come up with defensive dispelling.
Hunter: (offensive) magic, enrage
Protection warrior: (offensive) magic

[MaDCeLL]

You're terribly missinformed.

Hmm, actually I was terribly misterinformed ...

(come on, with that harsh statement you were asking for a bit of spelling nazi )

[MaDCeLL]

The only thing more epic than the Druid Changes are the massive amount of Warlock changes !

(druid changes have an interesting secondary effect where a crit will add a second combo point. with reduced spell costs this can occur more often, so thats nice, while a patch only cutting down on druids energy costs is kinda lame )

[Ataulfo]

Isn't the whole druid reductions thing just a streamlining of the old -cost talents that you needed to take anyway?

I'm not very annoyed on the lack of warlock changes, I know where the class is going towards to and how the playstyle will be once cata ships, rest is numbers, which is just tweaking. Still waiting to see the revamped meta skills and to see if demonology will have any kind of place in pvp.

Now on the paladin side, finally the tree has started to stop sucking, "improved exorcism" sorry I meant "sanctity of battle" was a terribad idea of talent (2 talent points to get what today on live I get from glyph?), glad it was merged with art of war and boosted (1 less talent than 2 from sanct of battle + 2 from art of war), communion has stopped sucking (the only replenish talent without a selfish bonus? really?) and blizzard has left some holes in the tree, so they're playing with more ideas.

[MaDCeLL]

Isn't the whole druid reductions thing just a streamlining of the old -cost talents that you needed to take anyway?

you know what ... you are actually right

... that however makes the sarcasm hammer on the my first line crit even higher

[Ataulfo]

Remember Blizzard stated other class would get concentration aura?

Level 74 shaman skill



Also, might be unfinished work, but this seems to be the model for the level 85 spell for paladins, guardian of ancient kings

[Erashir]

Awesome, another totem which will be completly useless. Thank you blizzard!

[Forgiven]

Shush Erash, I'm finally rolling shaman now that totems have for most part been made something you don't really have to drop if rest of the group can do it

[Tarnon]

a lot of druids loved Tree of Life, but a lot of druids hated it

source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... eNo=13#249

A lot of druids hated tree of life? Is that true?

[MaDCeLL]

well you had to be in-form to produce the same healing result that all other 3 healers would do in caster-form.
all other 3 healers can dps during healing, a druid has to shift out, cast the spell and then worst case shift back.

am I crying about not looking like a tree anymore and have those abilities baselined into casterform ? ... not a single tear.

[Ataulfo]

Some resto druids just love to heal, and like how tree form looks, so they're happy with it, they get to heal and look different, with their own emotes and the likes.

Other resto druids get their healing done, then they'd love to contribute either throwing a couple random spells, such as some roots, cyclone, faerie fire or raw damage, they cant without dropping tree form and lowering their healing output. As "too geared for heroic tanks", I've noticed that the healers that get bored most on my runs are the druids, out of the 4-5 healers that have asked me if it's ok to go dps spec during the heroic, all of them have been druids, with one shaman exception. That should give you out the impression how boring the resto druid life can be if nothing needs to be healed.

There's also the other issue about not seeing gear through the form, but that kinda goes as a whole for the druid class, no idea if Blizzard can reasonably fix that without investing resources in adding 5 extra models for each piece of visible gear a druid can equip and making it not look totally goofy. Doubt this one was a major factor tho, as I said, it's a druid-class issue more than resto druid issue.

[MaDCeLL]

I like the new heroic dungeon / raid tier 1 achievement mounts

[Ataulfo]

I'd like to note up storm drake is flagged as placeholder. Stone one however looks final (despite using a standard mob model).

[MaDCeLL]

Cataclysm is going to be so piss easy that is just not fun anymore. Any dumbfuck who got the LK kills and heroics kills like this super cool guy has absolute no challenge in Cataclysm ... OH ... WAIT !

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 8639&sid=1

[Ataulfo]

Saw that guy's post this morning, also saw he hasn't killed lk in normal neither pvp's actively, he's saying that because gear itemization will be simpler the game is "ruined", that "managing gear" is the fun part of pve, is it really fun? 90% of the players out there go to EJ or a similar site and get a BiS list with ranked alternatives to gear up. The ability to find a site like EJ to read the work of someone else and copy it is "fun"?

In Cata we'll be able of seeing an item as it drops, check it against what we're wearing and be 75% sure if it's an upgrade or not. Game is not turning easy because of that, in fact, game is getting harder because instead of gluing up the proper gear set is more about not being a retard when playing, "lolaoe" won't cut it, and ppl will cry about instances being "hard".

In a bold move, Blizzard is trying to force players to learn their class a bit with upping mob hp/damage output. Atm while you level you can 1-2-3 the mobs, new skills don't matter, you repeat the 1-2-3 you've been doing since level 10 and it works to a higher or lower degree, but with basically nonexistant risk of death and decent kill rate, what happens 70 levels after? go to EJ > copy BiS list > copy talent spec > copy glyphs > "learn" rotation > go to raid > "attempt" rotation > fail thanks to 70 levels of 1-2-3 > "dumb" down real rotation to a 1-2-3 version, ignoring all situational crap > subpar performance, probably horrible.

Many many players (this guy included) are going to feel the "skill" slap of Cata, since it's shifting from clicking the right gear into spot and be a retard spamming aoe into still click right gear into spot (but "right gear" being easier to recognize) and not playing like a retard.

[MaDCeLL]

FUCK THIS SHIT ... like with my luck I would have any chance of seeing those mounts before Cata then

Zul'Gurub is gone as a raid instance come Cataclysm.

I couldn't care less about Character changes since they will be balanced out anyhow with the begin of Cata arena season 2, but taking the instance away sucks ...

[Ataulfo]

Ppl is speculating they're retooling it into a regular 5man, adequate to stv levels (40ish, which would make sense to drop 100% mounts, like strat, that is going down to same levels). So it's too soon to make the QQ call.

It'd be pretty stupid of Blizzard to throw away the tons of work ZG took to make. "Refurbishing" it into a 5man to ease up the classic dungeons curve (there's a limit to how many times SM is fun to run in example) is more intelligent.

[Ataulfo]

So I was reading a topic about lock changes and they started talking about pets, felguard specially, and I thought "great, topic gone downhill with trolls".

No, they were not trolling...

Felguard






Pity demonology is still garbage itself pvpwise, the felguard finally is pulling ahead the other pets in terms of usability, instead of being on the bottom of the barrel behind the imp.

Btw, notice the roffelstorm doesn't provide CC immunity (appart of being a pet dealing the damage, won't ever come close to the damage done by a warrior), however if blizzard doesn't change demonic empowerment it'll be half achievable when combining both skills. Regardless, I want to see a felguard spinning like an idiot :>

EDIT: damn that was easy to find


This is a change to imp/felhunter (top is new imp ability, bottom is felhunter devour magic)



What's so great of this? remember in cata dispels can be cast regardless of the presence of something to dispel or not. Say hello to the first active counter vs blind, also a very powerful counter vs any CC that breaks on damage, no matter how covered in magical debuffs the target is.

The imp also lost phase shift to gain a "lifegrip" kind of thing that pulls the imp to the warlock and removes magical debuffs, but haven't found a SS for that.